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“Fantasy of Love” from Joker 2: Joaquin Phoenix, Lady Gaga and Todd Phillips on “Bad Romance” from Folie à Deux

Elvis Presley, a poverty-stricken truck driver who became one of the most famous people of the 20th century, said once as an icon of pop culture: “The image is one thing and the person is another.” It is very difficult to do justice to an image, so to speak.” In his own way, Arthur Fleck – the protagonist of 2019 joker and its upcoming sequel, Joker: Folie à Deux – can understand. After all, he was just a struggling comedian and party clown until his murder spree in Gotham City inadvertently inspired an anarchic social movement. In the sequel, Arthur is a supervillain to some and a superstar to others.

“I think that in the first film he really wanted to be heard and had the wrong idea about being heard. I think at first he just wanted to be heard by a social worker, but at some point it became perverse in a way and he wanted mass recognition,” says Joaquin Phoenix. who won the Oscar for Best Actor for “Joker.”recently told IGN. “That's kind of the result of that, the idea of ​​celebrity and what do you do when you've created this image in this character and you have to live up to it.”

Phoenix used rock stars other than Elvis to illustrate his point. “What do you do when you’re in a band like? KISS or something and you've created this character and you have to go on stage and there's all this pyrotechnics and you're doing all this theatrical shit and then at some point you're like, “I just want it to be quiet because I want.” be myself?' What happens when someone falls in love with you as this character, and how do you do it justice?

“I think this is something we all do in one way or another, or we all present this image as we walk through the world. And sometimes you just think, “I just want peace.” And I was curious: What would happen to someone who has made such a splash in the world if he just wanted peace, he just wanted an authentic connection with someone would like to have? I think that was part of the inspiration for it.”

“I think there is a moment where he may regret the decisions he made.”

(You're craving it) Near you: Joker's fans

The first Joker film ended with a personality cult forming around Jokerwith violent protests plunging Gotham City into chaos. The latest trailer for Joker 2 reveals that Joker's followers went on violent rampage not just in Gotham, but across the country. To his followers, Joker is an almost messianic figure, a revolutionary and martyr whose clown face they have adopted in protest against the institutional corruption that oppresses them. But only through the events of this sequel will his believers begin to get to know the real man behind the makeup: Arthur Fleck. Will they like who they find?

“I think they wanted Joker, and I think he realizes that at some point,” Phoenix said. “I think there is a moment where he may regret the decisions he made.”

Todd Phillips, the director and co-writer of both Joker films, reiterated this in a separate chat with IGN. “It's kind of like this idea when someone becomes an icon and we impose things on that person as a group, as a society, as a medium, whatever. We impose things on this person that they may not be able to live up to. And then what’s the worst case scenario when you finally find love in your life, or think you find it, but that person is in love with the character you are portraying and not the person you are?”

The person who falls in love with Joker is Harleen “Lee” Quinzel, played by Lady Gaga. When Arthur first meets her, Lee is a fellow patient at Arkham State Hospital, his biggest fan, and a kindred spirit. It's (insane) love at first sight (although there is some). lots of fan theories about what really happens between them in the film).

“I think he might be a little more withdrawn at first. Certainly I don't think he has any expectation that he will have any connection with anyone. “It’s definitely unexpected,” Phoenix said. “The beautiful thing is that Lee comes in and we see him come alive in that moment and through the music, and we see that moment where they see each other. And there’s something hopeful and really exciting about that that feels different than the first film.”

“I think what she craves more than anything is Joker.”

Bewitched (Bothered and Bewildered): Joker & Harley

As Lady Gaga recently told IGN, “Joker is what gives Arthur wings, and Lee brings that out of him.” In a way, she helps give him wings as he embraces a side of himself that makes him less afraid might. To me, it’s almost like him protecting himself.”

Lee was drawn to Joker by his intense indignation at a society that has abandoned or outright ignored troubled souls like him. “She's one of the people who was taken with his message about Murray Franklin,” Phillips explained, referencing Joker's on-air rants and subsequent murder of the talk show host, played by Robert De Niro in the first film.

“This happens all the time with good and bad people. And I don't know that it was his celebrity that she was attracted to. I think she was drawn to the message or what he was saying, even though he ended up doing it in a very left-footed way,” Phillips said. “I don’t think it hurt that he was famous too. I mean, you see it in the culture. People start writing letters to this person. She is something like that. She fell in love.”

Gaga, who simply refers to her interpretation of Harley Quinn as Lee, said her character's passion for Joker is overwhelming: “I would say Lee's love for Joker borders on moments where she knows exactly who she is and moments , that she's in.” has erased herself because she's so madly in love with and obsessed with this person, and that makes her completely different. Lee would, shall we say, act and behave as she needed to in order to get his attention, to keep him, to be close to him.

“I think what she craves more than anything is Joker. I think throughout the film she does everything she can to get the Joker out of Arthur Fleck. This created a really interesting insight into her life and psyche. How did she feel then if he was more Arthur than Joker? If she noticed him doing something that felt like a joker, what did that do to her? It's sort of creating a woman who is constantly searching for what she really loves, and that's a completely unique story too.

“He's a really complicated person in the world of Gotham that so many people really identify with and root for. Some people are afraid of him and want him to go to prison. This is a complex situation. I tried to focus on how I could make this as real as possible because I thought that would be the most honest way to honor a female character and also just honor the language and the story of this film.”

The Gucci and A Star is Born actress believes that “Joker: Folie à Deux really asks you to kind of come to terms with the masks that we all wear.” Also, what is danger and what isn't, and also the Ways we can love parts of each other. Does she love him as a whole or does she only love a part of him? Does he love her completely? How great is their ability to even see each other? Did they just get swept away by this tornado? Of course, identity is a big topic. I think that for my character I would also be interested to know what Harley Quinn fans think about how I explored this kind of dichotomy between Lee and Harley Quinn and how it affected Joker's romantic fantasy as well.”

“We just wanted to capture the kind of danger inherent in these characters.”

I'll Build a Mountain: Reimagining Harley Quinn

Gaga researched Harley Quinn after landing the role, although she ultimately decided not to use certain aspects of the character that fans of Batman: The Animated Series and Margot Robbie's previous on-screen incarnation might expect.

“I got very familiar with her and also tried to make sure that even when I was seeding things that were true to that part of her character, I was really focusing on that story and the love story between those two and allowing that to be unique too and how could it build on all of that but also be different and rare than that story,” Gaga said.

As for Harley Quinn's trademark thick accent, Gaga – a New York native – decided not to go that route. “I don't think the vocabulary and language of this film makes sense for this story and this film. I think I felt like I had all of the native New Yorker in my bones. This is a part of her on a cellular level. … I really tried to bring as much humanity to this story as possible with these two larger-than-life people.”

Phoenix, who also sang live alongside Gaga in several musical sequences throughout the film, praised his co-star as “a warm and supportive person,” which helped ease any nervousness he may have felt while starring alongside a global pop star of her stature sang. “In some ways, I'm more aware of her celebrity now that we've finished the film than I was during filming. She is so approachable and warm that it felt like she was a partner in something more than what I wanted to audition for this immense talent. I never really felt like that.

“Most movies work when the actors challenge each other and you challenge yourself and try to find things in the character that feel explosive and exciting about it,” Phoenix said. “Something about what happens when you put these two characters in a relationship, how inflammatory can that be? And I think there was something really exciting about that. We just wanted to capture the kind of danger inherent in these characters and what happens when they actually come together.”

Audiences can experience the danger that arises when Joker and Harley Quinn come together when Joker: Folie à Deux hits theaters on October 4th.

You can find more information about Joker here what Arthur Fleck would think of Batman and approximately Lady Gaga’s “Harlequin” companion album.

Editor's Note: These interviews have been edited for clarity.

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