Paul Schrader on Casting Richard Gere in “American Gigolo”

Paul Schrader, at age 78, is getting a little philosophical, a little introspective and, to be honest, extremely pessimistic about the future.

The legendary former film critic turned screenwriter and director – his long list of credits also includes Martin Scorsese's as a screenwriter Taxi driver (1976) and Angry bull (1980) and as writer and director American gigolo (1980), Reformed first (2017) and this year Oh, Canada – will arrive in Tuscany this week as a special guest of the Lucca Film Festival. On September 25th he will hold a master class for university students and the following day, on September 26th, he will be presented with a lifetime achievement award. There will also be a retrospective of his greatest films.

THR Roma met Schrader in New York shortly before he boarded his flight to Italy. Before dishing out the dirt and talking about John Travolta's worries and needs, Schrader went all metaphysical.

Paul, you're coming to Lucca. What would you most like to remember in your life of tremendous success?

I could answer that question, but my answer would be based on a belief in the future that I actually don't have. So it's quite difficult to talk about your own legacy if you don't believe there will be a legacy. I think we've run out of steam here. Humanity is dissolving. Carbon-based life has evolved well, but if in a hundred years there are still humanoids hearing or reading these words, then I think I'll be most proud of having made it all custom-made. I started writing on demand Taxi driverand I still write to spec today. I have written four films on request in the last two years. And that makes others feel like they can do it. Just do it!

Tell me something about writing Taxi driver “on spec” as you put it.

I wrote a good deal before I met Martin. I have written Taxi driver 1972. I met Marty in 1974. I was a film critic in LA at the time and had written a screenplay, a kind of existential scream. I didn't do anything with it. One day I was interviewing Brian De Palma and I said to Brian, “You know, I wrote a script.” And Brian said, “Oh God, no, no, no, please!” And then when we were playing chess afterwards, said him: “Okay, I'll read your script.” And he gave it to Marty. Brian told Marty that the film might be for him.

Apart from Taxi driverHer other most famous films are Angry bull And American gigolo. Giorgio Armani once told me a story about how you brought John Travolta to Milan to be groomed by Armani for the role that Richard Gere would eventually play. Do you remember that?

I have a photo of it. I literally have a photo of Giorgio taking John's measurements. And Sergio [Galeotti]who was Armani's business and personal partner for many, many years, was watching. John and I had come from London, where he had opened Fat. And then he got out.

But before Travolta got out, he had already been fitted by Mr. Armani himself, right?

Yes Yes Yes. The clothes were all in progress. They weren't made to order or were custom-made, but they were all from his upcoming line, and it was clearly something he had in mind as he prepared to move to North America.

What happened to John Travolta? He had a family crisis?

Three things happened. First, his mother died, which hit him hard. Secondly, he had his first mega-flop, a film called Moment by momentand that shocked him. And the third thing, I think, was that he became increasingly afraid of the gay subtext [of the film]. In fact, as the story goes, our friend Kit Carson, who was still alive at the time, was living with Karen Black. Karen Black went to Scientology [meetings]. She comes back and says, “Kit, I think John is going to get out of Schrader’s movie. He talked about it in meetings.” And so I started snooping around to see who was available.

John Travolta was sensitive to the gay subtext because he was in Scientology and they didn't approve of gay themes?

I don't know if he's out now, but he definitely wasn't out then. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it were, it certainly wouldn't be discussed. Until Rupert Everett, no one really came out. He was the first. And he lost a lot of work because of it.

Anyway, John Travolta dropped out. What have you done?

I liked Gere's idea. I didn't think I could get Paramount to do it. In fact, John dropped out on a Friday afternoon. I told Barry Diller [the boss at Paramount at the time] that I wanted to contact Gere. And he said, “No, we're going to Chris Reeve.” So the next day, on Saturday, I called Chris Reeve's agent and said, “I heard you were offered the script, but I don't think Chris is the right person for it.” So I poisoned the well. There's no way Chris would read it! (Laughs mischievously.) And then I went to see Gere on Sunday. He stayed on the beach. So I'm driving to Malibu and Gere is busy watching the Super Bowl. I offer him the role. And he hesitates, saying he can't be forced to make such a big decision at such short notice. So I told him, “The game will be over in half an hour, but if I leave here, the movie will probably fail and you won't have a chance to make a decision again.” And he said, OK, he would do it.

And Diller?

I went to Barry Diller's house and left a note in his mailbox. An hour later he called me. I told him that Richard Gere was willing to do it American gigoloand I told him that Chris Reeve didn't think it was right for him. I said, “So tomorrow morning there will be news that John has gotten out. We can no longer suppress this news. It's too big. After this headline, they'll be asking you for your reaction, Barry. Now I can legally hold John Travolta for three months because he walked out ten days before filming. By law I can keep him away from work for three months. Or there could be another announcement, Barry, because I know you want John Urban cowboy. And I know John wants to do it. So the other announcement you could make is that John has dropped out American gigoloand we'll continue with Richard Gere.” And Barry called me back an hour later and we made the announcement.